[Editor's note: I wanted to thank all of you for your in-depth replies to the Sasquatch Breeding Grounds article I published in last month's newsletter. (If you missed the article, you can read it online here.) Below are some of the email responses I received from readers. Please keep in mind that the opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of myself or Oregonbigfoot.com.]
Hi Autumn,
Warren Scott was just a BS artist. His story blew apart immediately when Rene and I checked him out. As to "Muchalot Harry", I know of no reason to believe that an Indian with such an unlikely name ever existed.
John Green
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Hi John,
Thanks for the feedback. I figured the Warren Scott story was too good to be true. But it still got me thinking. What are your thoughts on the rest of the article? Have you given any thought over the years to whether the creatures leave breeding up to chance or ??? :)
Autumn
***
Who knows? My guess for a long time has been that the sasquatch have a lifestyle similar to orangs', with the males being solitary and territorial and not involved in raising their offspring. My reasoning is based on one overall fact and one individual report. Such a lifestyle would account for the overwhelming majority of sightings involving males. Sasquatch are undoubtedly aware of human activity and females could easily avoid most encounters on their home turf, but males could afford to be less cautious and if they have to seek unoccupied territories they must often have to take their chances in places with which they are not familiar. And while Glen Thomas' recorded account is usually assumed to be about a family group, in discussions with me he stressed that the infant was very careful to keep on the other side of its mother from the male.
The fall / winter /early spring months also provide the best times to travel due to reduced amount of daylight...(as sightings show) color changes in foliage to provide blend-in /cover as this can also applied to/ from deer, coyote, wolf, moose and in the tropical jungles where gorilla reside...birds of prey use this in reverse to seek out food.
I've many wonderful female friends & a few siblings whom have been with child and they've told me (& I see first -or second hand,so to speak ) just how uncomfortable they feel during the warmest part of the year...
Hence I think your theory holds true...!
Sean
My grandparents lived in LaPine from the 1960's through the 80's. my grandmother related that she witnessed a group mating in the woods in the spring..i think the year was 1969.. this was one female and a group of perhaps 12 males..she wasn't sure but saw a large variety of
footprints...also they were quite noisy..she said the event lasted for about a week..
The summer before I remember there was already a gathering of perhaps 4 to 6 adults ...they kept watching the house at night and we saw there shadows and reflective red eyes among the
jackpines.....creeped me out..
The fall after the mating my grandmother saw the afterbirth.... we all heard the baby crying in the forest all winter...grandma's cats disappeared too that winter..(not necessarily related)
(after replying to Jim, I got the following response...)
My grandparents lived just north of the town.... the house burned down a few years ago..and the property has been subdivided..there is a buymart to the west of where my grandparents house was. to the east of the buymart there is a long dirt road that connects to Huntington
Road..that was where my grandparents driveway was..to the north of that dirt road is where the mating took place... that area hasn't changed. The buymart is now located on top of where the female gave birth. They are planning to build a senior citizens center/rest home on the location of my grandparent's house.
During my grandparent's life they were the only people living in that area north of LaPine. They were surrounded by BLM land. The terrain has flat volcanic soil. The area was thickly wooded with jackpine and deer brush. The little deschutes river is a short walk on the western side of Huntington road.... and the deer migrated through this area too.
The female in question raised her young just north of my grandparents property.. The males seemed to come and go, so to speak... This area north of my grandparent's house was me and my cousins playground too....we just knew that if the forest sounds were silent, we stayed in the house. And if that wasn't enough... if the wind was right, the smell reminded us of why we played lots of monopoly, and cards...
Jim
Hello Autumn,
First of all I would like to say that it is really great to have your Newsletter arrive. And, the great news about your baby. I am so very happy for you.. Hopefully by the time she starts working as a Researcher in her mommy's shoes, much of the speculation about Sasquatch will have become fact ; proven by caring and dedicated people such as yourself and a few others. The good Lord willing your little one will grow up to be just like her mommy.
I have read and studied your speculation on this subject of winter meeting places for breeding and giving birth. What you have to say really makes sense. However, with a large group food is going to be a problem in the winter months. Could it be that these gathering places would correspond with the winter feeding grounds of ungulates such as Deer and Moose, maybe Elk? This would solve the problem of a meat source. Also, from the hundreds of stories that I have read on the internet I have suspicions that Sasquatch might be a gatherer, storing some food away for the winter months. I highly doubt that they would have a giant storehouse filled to the brim, but could likely have enough stored to sustain them between successful meat hunts. Dried roots, herbs, and certain vegetation stuffs would be the likely choices. During the mushroom season it would not be hard to set up a store of dried ones. [Excellent point! - Editor]
If they chose these winter communes close to where ungulates winter, the calves and fawns and the elderly, would be an easy food source Wolves and other predators follow the herds through the winter feeding areas, why not Sasquatch. If they have to journey an entire day or so to find the meat herds, it wouldn't take much longer to bring back a few of the smaller animals for food for the females and the young Sasquatches. Stored supplies could sustain the group until the hunters returned. Sounds much like the life of the Indian people in the olden days ; and it worked for them for thousands of years before now.
This could also offer an explanation for the question of, "Do Sasquatch hibernate in the winter?" I personally don't believe that they do, nor are capable of doing so. However, I honestly can not offer a proper explanation for that opinion.
Another point to consider in your speculation would be that if the pregnant females and youngsters of puberty were to go to these places in the winter, it would take a lot of pressure off of their family that was left behind ; making it easier for them to make it through the lean food months.
From all that I have learned from study, and from what I have learned from my own research, I simply cannot accept that Sasquatch lacks the intelligence to live a life that way. I think that your speculation is incredibly reasonable ; especially if one ads to that the aspect of food supply.
I stand firm in the belief that there are very few researchers who can even imagine the intelligence level of these big hairy friends of ours. We should never underestimate the intelligence of someone that we do not know..
.................. Leo Selzer, Prince George BC............
Hey Leo
I think that Autumn needs to mix the crèche theory with the ideas that you put to her. What you finish up with is the concept of a crèche unit but way smaller than she has suggested.
Now what would be the plan of action if like we think Sasquatch travels a circular route with inter-arcing circles where mating, social and inter-familial actions occur.
Yes to the gene pool. Yes to broadening mate choices. Yes to interactions for group hunting/trading/ story telling/gathering and territorial dispute settling. They must have some communication techniques for all these things because they are pretty basic if a) they are going to continue as a species but b) they are survival 101 if they are to continue to avoid man.
Why not a high protein pemmican for winter food? Is there any info about hot springs and Sasquatch, and before you get excited about around Mission/Harrison, there are a huge number of hotsprings scattered across BC, including all year round crabbing sites/crayfish availability/late and early fruits/double header fish runs and with the expansion of logging a wider source of meat foods. They don't seem to be intimidated by water so they can probably swim. Do they fish? The idea of dumpster diving/garbage picking bothers me especially as a winter food source. But I can accept a correlation between gestation/winter solstice -ish births and crèche facilities related to stored and easily available food supplies.
I wonder as well about the sap sucking and licking that we evidenced in early spring. Is there a high sugar content? But what stays with me about that winter spring/crèche thing is the discovery of the moose with the ripped off jaw, the spread legs and the untouched meat/hide/maggot pile.
We never really pushed the idea too far but what if sasquatch has a means of marking its kill that stops other predators/foragers from using its kill?
Then the idea of winter killed meat for use over time becomes even more interesting.
Just a few ideas to add to the pot and send down to Autumn.
Best,
Mike
Hi Autumn,
I read with interest your theory on sasquatch congregating for birthing.
I am skeptical about this theory, and the sighting it is closely linked to, for a couple of reasons.
The sighting involved fire. Sasquatch using fire. I have never heard of this. Do you have any other sightings of this? I have heard of them using human fire for warmth, but never making their own.
The sheer numbers you mention. If these animals did indeed gather into such number on a regular basis, they would be known to science, I would think. Such an encampment would be seen from the air, would leave huge trace, ect... This is the ONLY case I am familiar with of a large group like this, other than the 'cabin assault' incident in Ape Canyon, which was decidedly not social.
The sightings I am familiar with are of small family groups, which are a sighting rarity, so one can assume a temporary arrangement, and of large male adults traveling alone, which appear to be the norm. I believe on average, 1 male, 1 female, and 1-3 infant-juvenile animals.
So, we might agree that Sasquatch mating may involve finding each other through vocalizing, perhaps the females let out a distinctive cry (that may already be on somebody's recording) letting all the boys know she's available (forcing to keep straight face here ;). The adult male and female meet, court, and mate, and then the male either stays with the female during
her pregnancy to protect her as she is less mobile, or leaves for a short while and returns when she births. I tend to believe the latter, as I have a sighting from Alaska of a very pregnant adult female feeding at the shoreline, and there was no male anywhere to be seen, so it appears the mom is on her own for the pregnancy. Too bad. Then he stays with her a few
years until the young ones are large and strong enough to be reasonably safe from predators. During this time a Sasquatch family will become sedentary and choose a secluded location to raise the young. After the young are strong enough, the male once again departs and heads off alone.
This is consistent with the Albert Ostman account, which is to me, a credible abduction account. And other sightings I am familiar with, such as a family encounter near Nanaimo, on Vancouver island (just up the road from
me).
The account you provide from north Vancouver 1961, while very interesting reading, by itself provide nothing. In my mind, it is the frequency of a reported piece of data that slowly increases it's credibility. So if we have many many many sightings of 7 to 8 foot animals, and only a few of 12 foot animals, I tend to believe the 12 footers were overestimated, and the
average and normal height is 6-7 feet for females and 7-8 feet for males, with obviously some statistical variance as occurs in our own species of 'gigantism'.
Since this report you recount is the first ever case I have ever heard of sasquatches using fire, I must discount it almost entirely as a hoax. [Editor's note: I tend to agree on this point]
Thanks for the very interesting read, keep up the amazing work! And good luck to you and your significant other with your child.
Gavin Joth
British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club
Victoria, BC.
Hi Autumn;
Enjoyed your hypothesis, of course, a hypothesis is something assumed for the purpose of argument. We probably will get a lot of argument on this. However, I do not believe our friends lead a solitary lifestyle. I had a multiple (2 of them) sighting many years ago as a youngster.
I never knew anything about this until many years later. I read an article in a magazine and realized what I had encountered. I have been investigating (mostly alone) for many years keeping my own counsel because Police Officers who see things or are interested in our friends are usually assigned desk duty because of skeptics. I'm retired now and continue my own little quiet looking around.
Tom in Maryland
Dear Autumn,
I’ve been getting your newsletter for a few years now and felt compelled to finally comment on an issue. Your theory of mating and breeding intrigued me to offer my knowledge.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Heidi McCann. I am Yavapai-Apache/Kashia Pomo born for the Matikiwawipaya or Verde Valley people today known as the Yavapai-Apache Nation (YAN). I am an enrolled member of the YAN. I graduated with a B.A. in American Studies and an M.S. in Museum and Field Studies, both received from the University of Colorado at Boulder. I am an American Indian Culture Preservationist and am currently on contract with my tribe as a consultant.
I am working on many side projects in addition to my current work in Language Revitalization/Preservation. One project is a paper currently titled “Cultural Production as cultural preservation between American Indian tribes”. I am including “Indian storytelling” into this paper in order to bring “Bigfoot” into an academic paper legitimately and without being chastised, though I doubt I would be chastised by the academic community, except an Ivy League school.
You mentioned the following in your newsletter:
So there you have it. Again, please remember that these are IDEAS, not beliefs. It could also be that the creatures simply stumble around in the woods, bump into one another, breed, and give birth on the fly. I think it's unlikely, simply because the closest model we have to a "Sasquatch lifestyle" is Early Native Americans and they didn't do things that way, for good reason.
(Also, researchers often ponder whether these creatures are "territorial" or "nomadic". Weren't Early Native Americans both, in a way? They'd choose a spot to inhabit but then would journey occasionally to other areas for a specific purpose...)
One final thought... can you IMAGINE coming across one of those box canyons and seeing a gathering with your own eyes? Wow. Of course, the creatures there might be overprotective and not-quite-friendly...
I have my ideas about where some of these areas might exist. Where do you think they might be? Why do you think, if the above stories are accurate, these creatures would kidnap humans and bring them into the Gathering Place?
Here are my thoughts on ‘early American Indians and nomadic lifestyles and specific purposes on territory”:
Indians were expert observers of the natural world, so they realized that old-growth forests sucked (old growth forests meaning Douglas fir, hemlock, and cedar. This forest type moved in and took over the coastal states i.e California, Oregon, Washington, up into BC, maybe even further east. It created the closed-canopy forest that we see today. These forest types were viewed as a pest, almost pest weed type environments because they made the ground too dark for other trees or plants to survive. The forest may look impressive today, but they were dead landscapes for game at the time of the early American Indians. So Indians set fire, making sure the forests burned down periodically. They made sure there were only islands of old growth forest in the midst of the plains and meadows. Most forests that the early settlers saw were cultivated. Early American Indians were realists and still are rather than the romantic myth of today or in more modern and contemporary times; Early American Indians understood land management.
Let’s look at the history of land management in Yellowstone National Park. It was the first wilderness to be set aside as a natural preserve anywhere in the world by President Ulysses Grant in 1872. The only problem with creating national parks was no one had any experience preserving wilderness because there had never been any need to do it before and presumed to be much easier than it proved to be.
When Theodore Roosevelt visited the park in 1903 and he saw a landscape teeming with game, thousands of elk, buffalo, black bear, deer, mountain lions, grizzlies, coyotes, wolves, and bighorn sheep. By this time the rules were to keep things as they were. After about 10 years the landscape was no longer and gone forever. The park managers charged with managing the landscape had taken a series of steps that they thought were in the best interest of preserving the park and its animals.
The park managers mistakenly believed that elk were about to become extinct, so they tried to increase the herds by elimination predators, thus no wolves in WY and they prohibited all the Indians from hunting in the park even though Yellowstone was a traditional hunting ground for Indians.
Protected, the elk herds exploded and ate so much of certain trees and grasses that the ecology of the area began to change. The elk ate trees that beavers used to make dams, so the beavers vanished. The park managers discovered beavers were vital to the overall water management of the region.
When the beavers disappeared, the meadows dried up; the trout and otter vanished; soil erosion increased; and the park ecology changed further.
By 1920 it became clear that the elk became abundant and there were too many, so the rangers began to shoot them by the thousands. But the change in plant ecology seemed to be permanent: the old mix of trees and grasses did not return.
It also became increasingly clear that the Indian hunters of old had exerted a valuable ecological influence on the park lands by keeping down the numbers of elk, moose, bison. This belated recognition came as part of a more general understanding that American Indians had strongly shaped the “untouched wilderness” that the first settlers saw – or thought they were seeing – when they first arrived in the New World. The “untouched wilderness” was nothing of the sort. Human beings on the North American continent had exerted a huge influence on the environment for thousands of years – burning plains grasses, modifying forests, and thinning specific animal populations by hunting.
Getting back to your question about where these places might be I do not know nor can I speculate. On why would they kidnap humans and bring them to the Gathering Places, perhaps as witness to what is taking place? American Indians often adopted white people or other non-tribal members, so why wouldn’t the Bigfoot? If you investigate many Indian stories you will find this theme of adoption common amongst most Indian tribes and many of these non-Indian, non-tribal members often acted as spokespersons or translators to relay a story.
So what I know about marriage customs in Early American Indian life - those customs which might have been designed to avoid birth defects due to interbreeding - is that like it is speculated in early man, the woman or female was always made to leave a group or clan and join up with another group. There was the practice of arranged unions between tribal peoples (even we practiced this custom like Europeans, but we did this to avoid interbreeding, not for political gain). These were usually done at gatherings, not pow wows (is what some want to call them). There was also raids and kidnapping that went on. It was common, thus we have the stolen maiden icon. It is common knowledge that Sacajawea was kidnapped during a small raid.
Of course, if you ask an elder about this I will speculate that some will say we learned these things from the Hairyman Tribe. You will find that he/she is a teacher to some tribes and this is one of the things taught to us by them. And there are the other stories as well.
Respectfully,
Heidi McCann
[Editor's note: THANK YOU, Heidi, for sharing your expertise with us! A reply from Heidi follows...]
I need to correct my incorrection about arranged unions. Indian people did arrange unions between tribes for political reasons, usually to keep the peace between neighboring tribes, but not so much for gain of wealth or fortune. So it can be hypothesized that Bigfoots practice something similar in culture.
Now it is a mistake to view this as Indian men being "possessive" or "objectifying" women. Women, in most Indian cultures, are and were valued. It was us who carried on the line, so to speak.
I'm researching more of this topic. I failed to see this, so you see, even we make mistakes in interpretation.
Respectfully,
Heidi McCann
I have been reading your newsletter for some time, and enjoy it greatly. Your breeding ground article was excellent.
Re: "Why do you think, if the above stories are accurate, these creatures would kidnap humans and bring them into the Gathering Place?"
To assuage the maternal instincts of an individual who lost a child, or was otherwise w/o such companionship.
Or to teach their young about our existence? Perhaps to caution them about how intelligent people are, and to let our scent and form be known?
Yeah I agree with you. Ostmen said it himself that he thought he was caught for breeding that young female in that group. Just like in North Dakota a sasquatch was seen over a few days by some native americans in the winter/spring (bfro). By that story it was absolutely obvious that that creature was traveling somewhere. I've been in that part of North Dakota. I remember reading that on bfro and thinking to myself where is that sasquatch going.
Scott
Autumn,
Finally got around to reading your theory about breeding grounds for Bigfoot and it brings up some interesting points. My group has been studying an area for the last four years that we feel is a ‘nursery’. What has led us to this conclusion is that we have found three different size footprints, 17” footprints and two smaller sets, that with each year seems to be growing in size. It seems that a breeding female has a small juvenile and an older juvenile in this area.
We are able to bait the smaller creatures into close proximity to us, until what we believe is a warning scream is given and they back away from us. Basically this is all theory on our part, but I just wanted to pass it on to you for your information.
D.W. Lee
Dear Autumn:
Your research and ideas on breeding grounds do have merit. I just want to elaborate on a few things and what you have written here.
I know of a family that brings there 'children' to show to a woman not far from here. And it seemed that it would be in the Spring, but I am not sure if that would be considered a period of gatherings or such, because the family would show up at all times.
I do believe that they must mate, possibly for life. Mainly because they are a rare breed, be it human or animal. We as humans have rare breeds among us and we all have different customs and breeding styles, religions, so forth and so on. And since they are very few and rare, they wouldn't have the luxury of having sex once a year and going about their business and then finding someone a year later and so on. I do believe when they do find their mate they stay together, as with the family that is often seen. They are a family...father, mother and children.
But what you say makes sense. Where do the males and females go to meet? They have to have some predestined area to go so that they can meet their future mates. It only makes sense to me. You refer to the Native American Indians quite a bit and frankly I dont think they would be amused by being compared to a bigfoot but your points are will taken. ( And I do have to say that in many Native American Indian stories they speak of a tribe of hairy people that lived among them and that they drove them out because they were so different) But not only do Indians apply here. Also other animals 'gather' for mating purposes. And if we really get right down to it, when the elk are in rut and are calling and giving off scent, they are making a gathering of some respect. Being a big game hunter, I have studied the markings of these animals and seen where a bull would year after year return to the same area and the same trees to rub off the velvet and sharpen his antlers and make his wallows for the near rutting season. I am not saying that Bigfoot is an animal, but I am saying that they have to adapt some form of conformity to breeding habits to keep the ongoing life of their species.
And we all know that making life is 'bred' in us to many levels and degrees.
The only thing that bothers me about this is that the meeting places would be so much easier to find if so many would meet year after year for centuries. The trails of the Native Americans can still be seen on the hills of Snow Peak. You would think that an animal as large as Bigfoot would leave a good trail close to the 'gathering' and that one looking for it would be able to find it easily. And the grounds themselves would be very well worn down from the months of living there. It is interesting to think about it though. Because I have been in areas where the elk are numerous and then like over night they disappear and not an animal around for the longest
time. Do you suppose this is when the Bigfoot move in and control the area and run the animals off (unwillingly of course)? I know it is hard to miss a trail of elk meandering through the forest. But I have also been in the position where a heard of elk are in the brush not 40 yards from me and they can remain hidden. An intelligent animal such as the Bigfoot would be able to disguise the entrance to the 'gathering' I suppose.
These are just things to think about and I think your theory is a good one. One not to just sweep under the rug.
I have had my own encounters with Bigfoot and I have come to the conclusion that he is a very intelligent 'being'. I can not say or will not say if he is human or animal. I just know that he has more brain power than one might think. But again, he/she is woods wise and they know the forests and know how to hide and so on. Which brings me to this...I read a lot in the papers
and books and many say that they smell a horrible smell when they encounter Bigfoot. I dont think I would believe that so much. They have to remain the best possible hunter in the woods. And to go undetected by man and their dinner, they must remain without the horrible smell that is reported of them. The American Indians knew this well and always practiced hygiene to
the max. They didn't even like the smell of the European because they smelled so badly from unwashed bodies and their bad hygiene habits. The American Indians knew that cleanliness was also a must for getting close to their 'groceries'. So I have a huge problem with the odor thing. I know when mating (rutting) is in full bloom the elk and bucks always give off an odor and you can smell them a mile away. So if a Bigfoot stunk so badly and there are many in a 'gathering' what keeps people from finding them? One would be able to locate a bunch of stinking animals fairly quickly I would think. If one would really think about it, animals do not stink. At least the wild animals do not. You might encounter a bear once in while that smells strange, but if you really smell it you will smell the smell of a garbage dump. But you
will not smell a cougar, beaver, bobcat, lynxcat, deer, elk (unless rutting), or any of the other wild animals in nature. On our continent anyway. So why are these people saying that some times they encounter a smelly Bigfoot and sometimes they dont say that they smelled anything? Are they smelling a Bigfoot during the 'gathering' season?
Just some thoughts.
Take care.
Sincerely,
Connie
Hi Autumn,
Hope your pregnancy is going as smoothly as possible.
When I saw the title to your article my first thought was - no way. But you were able to sway me over to the possibility of a utopian bf society in remote areas. What an imagination you have! I doubt it would be possible in my area (East Texas) because they would be too visible. I think it would be the 'bump and run' method here. But who knows?
After the bleak future I gave bf in my story it was nice to read your vision of hope. In my writing I sometimes like to make controversial statements to provoke thought. I don't necessarily believe bigfoots are being exterminated.
Take care,
Larry Godfrey
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